Suggestions?

"PartyPooper2012" (PartyPooper2012) 10/22/2018 at 09:56 • Filed to: None

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My wife is looking into options for getting a new car. She wants a 4wd/awd suv. We need it to tow about 5K lbs or more.

So far she has looked at MDX.

I glanced at 4Runner and Armada.

Anyone have any opinion for or against?

She also likes Q5 but they seem pretty boring looking and difficult to work on also silly expensive. We shelved that option.

I don’t know if we are missing anything else. Definitely not going with the big 3 US names. 

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > PartyPooper2012 10/22/2018 at 10:05

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Tahoe.

Not sure why you’d rule out the true SUVs. A Tahoe has more capacity than anything you listed and gets better mileage real world.

ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable) > PartyPooper2012 10/22/2018 at 10:05

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Towing 5k+ is going to require a ladder-frame truck-based SUV; unless Honda has done something magical and made their Pilot/Ridgeline super strong.

You need to get an older Landcruiser/LX470/GX470/GX460.

Deal Killer - Powered by Focus > PartyPooper2012 10/22/2018 at 10:06

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I would think if you are looking at a tow rating of more than 5,000 lbs., truck choices would be limited to body on frame construction. An Acura MDX/Honda Pilot type of SUV, while capable of towing that weight, would be at it’s upper limit, not including any other cargo and passengers.

KingT- 60% of the time, it works every time > PartyPooper2012 10/22/2018 at 10:08

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No American Big 3 so Tahoe, Durango, Grand Cherokee and Explorer are out.

So, BMW X5? or does it also fall in the realm of pretty boring looking and difficult to work on also silly expensive

4Runner is always a solid choice. How about a used Lexus GX?

Perhaps something in this list can help?

https://www.tflcar.com/2018/06/best-midsize-suv-for-towing/  

nermal > PartyPooper2012 10/22/2018 at 10:14

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Power Wagon!

Highlander-Datsuns are Forever > PartyPooper2012 10/22/2018 at 10:15

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>5,000 lbs? why not a 4-door pickup with a shot bed like a Chevy colorado, or even full size pick up. They are so nice now there really isn’t much compromise compared to an SUV.

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > nermal 10/22/2018 at 10:16

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adamftw > PartyPooper2012 10/22/2018 at 10:17

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The Answer is Tahoe/Yukon. But since you are against the logical choice, the next suggestion is a Sequoia .

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > adamftw 10/22/2018 at 10:19

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They seem great, except the terrible mileage......

IMO, Tahoe/Yukon are the best choice for his case. Would like to know the reasoning as to why no Domestics? 

PartyPooper2012 > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 10/22/2018 at 10:20

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PartyPooper2012 > KingT- 60% of the time, it works every time 10/22/2018 at 10:22

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I have GX and it’s solid. I hate their mouse pad tho. 

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > PartyPooper2012 10/22/2018 at 10:23

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SUV, 5k+ tow rating.

It’s exactly what you didn’t know you needed.

adamftw > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 10/22/2018 at 10:23

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Yea, mileage and its outdated AF inside.... which is saying a lot when you compare it to a GM product.

PartyPooper2012 > ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable) 10/22/2018 at 10:24

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I have a GX470. It’s solid. She wants something too but wants something different.

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > adamftw 10/22/2018 at 10:24

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Eh, The newer Tahoe/Yukons are more luxury inside than most luxury vehicles....

ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable) > PartyPooper2012 10/22/2018 at 10:25

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Box truck?

It’s different...

PartyPooper2012 > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 10/22/2018 at 10:26

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I had a suburban and it was a black hole in a pavement where I threw most of my money. We are of the opinion that american made vehicles are not made very well. I know I know. there will be fire and I will need a flame suit... I am entitled to my opinion and im sticking to my guns

Censored > PartyPooper2012 10/22/2018 at 10:27

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I’m gonna party poop partypooper. You are likely going to have to omit one of the following.

*5k lbs or more* (specifically the or more part)

*Definitely not going with the big 3 US name*

Tahoe/Escalade is your answer. These will get you between 6500 and 8500 towing depending on packages.

MDX is 3500 lbs towing

4 runner is 5k

Armada is 8500, but the fuel mileage is going to kill you.

Q5 is 4500

x5 is up to 5900lbs depending on package.

PartyPooper2012 > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 10/22/2018 at 10:29

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Trust me.... I have my reasons for not going with suburban/tahoe and derivatives.

Last suburban was a money pit. I could have owned two lexus trucks for the money i threw in fixing that fucking crap can. 

adamftw > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 10/22/2018 at 10:31

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True, true. They aren’t my favorite interiors but they are pretty non-polarizing, and otherwise handsome and functional .

OmerCarrothers333 > PartyPooper2012 10/22/2018 at 10:36

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VW Toureg (however you spell it), Porsche Cayenne, or Audi Q7?

I know it’s all the same thing, just stay away from the disel versions, and you should be ok.

One of the guys from Everyday Driver has a V6 Cayenne, and has no trouble with it; he suggested post-2008 non-turbo models would be ok as well.

Tristan > PartyPooper2012 10/22/2018 at 10:44

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I owned 2 square body Suburbans in the past. They were good rigs. Then I owned a GMT400. It was a miserable piece of donkey shit. My current GMT800, though- love it.

PartyPooper2012 > Censored 10/22/2018 at 10:49

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party poop me all you want. MDX is 5k with awd which was part of requirement.

4runner works

Armada tows 8500 on a good day. Looks more like 5K

Pilot is pretty ugly according to my wife. 

PartyPooper2012 > OmerCarrothers333 10/22/2018 at 10:50

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Allergies to working on VW incarnations. Sorry. 

Future next gen S2000 owner > PartyPooper2012 10/22/2018 at 10:52

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Lexus GX or LX. Porsche Cayenne. Nissan Pathfinder will tow 6,000 lbs.

PartyPooper2012 > ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable) 10/22/2018 at 10:53

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this is true, but fails the SUV requirement. 

PartyPooper2012 > Future next gen S2000 owner 10/22/2018 at 10:55

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Lexus has that mouse pad you navigate with and it’s pretty horrible invention.

I have not looked at pathfinders yet. They sorta fell off the grid when they changed their boxy looks to a fancy station wagon looks.

I have to look now. 

OmerCarrothers333 > PartyPooper2012 10/22/2018 at 11:02

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Totally understandable. My GTI is the only car I’ve had which is a combination of turbo/German/VW Auto group. Until I got it every vehicle I had was either American or Japanese and naturally aspirated.

Hold on doesn’t Mercedes make a huge SUV that can haul TONS of stuff?

OmerCarrothers333 > PartyPooper2012 10/22/2018 at 11:05

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Don’t get an MDX unless you go new or CPO. My wife’s issues with her’s reminds me of the issues you’ve had with your Suburban. Due to financial issues we have to suck it up and keep the bastard.

PartyPooper2012 > OmerCarrothers333 10/22/2018 at 11:07

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my allergies are with over engineering portion. Here is a fastener we call bolt. On VW/Audi/Porsche we are going to make it similarly - a bolt, but we will require special fucking tools and some bolts will require complete replacement once removed - looking at you, caliper bolts.

Mercedes does have a huge suv... few actually... but something about them wife doesnt like. 

PartyPooper2012 > OmerCarrothers333 10/22/2018 at 11:09

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tell me more... what year? What problems? FWD/AWD?

Buddy of mine has had 2 or 3 now and only issue he had was with a bluetooth gizmo always being on and draining battery. He yanked the fuse for it or unplugged it completely and problem was solved. 

Textured Soy Protein > PartyPooper2012 10/22/2018 at 11:13

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Price?

New or used?

What exactly do you mean about your towing activities?

What are other priorities for your wife? Features? Power? MPG? Anything?

Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo > PartyPooper2012 10/22/2018 at 11:16

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Sequoia

PartyPooper2012 > Textured Soy Protein 10/22/2018 at 11:18

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price around 50K
need to tow a trailer from time to time... utility trailer with home improvement stuff - mulch, top soil etc. don’t need to get car dirty if we dont need to.

Priorities is that it’s higher up and is shiny and pretty. Such were the words out of her mouth (besides what I had already mentioned)

PartyPooper2012 > Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo 10/22/2018 at 11:18

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yeah. i have to look at that. Hadn’t really considered it for some reason. 

OmerCarrothers333 > PartyPooper2012 10/22/2018 at 11:22

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Let’s see... 2007... bought used in 2016. In that time period I’ve replaced 6 tires, timing belt, battery, brakes, alternator, brake/transmission/transfer case fluids, power steering lines (the lower one that requires dropping the subframe), the gas cap, both motor-mounts...

I feel like I’m forgetting something...

The stereo’s an in-dash CD player, it ate a CD and won’t eject it, so now it cycles through all the slots (even when the car is off). There’s also an airbag warning that comes on when I sit in the driver’s seat and move the seat back (probably a wire that I’m not fixing). The gas cap was replaced due to a check gas-cap warning that keeps going off. We’ve decided we might be able to live with these.

I was told we have a leaky CV boot and I don’t know if or when I want to deal  with it.

So with all the shit the MDX is giving me, I felt ok that my used GTI has just had an exhaust leak.

OmerCarrothers333 > OmerCarrothers333 10/22/2018 at 11:23

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MDXs have standard  AWD

WiscoProud > Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo 10/22/2018 at 11:33

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I’m sure its very reliable, but it looks over inflated to me. Like a normal vehicle had an air hose hooked to it and it got pumped up. I love the first get, too bad they all rusted out. 

WiscoProud > Censored 10/22/2018 at 11:36

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Does it need to be new? You can get a newer 200 series for that. Maybe even CPO. An Lx570 will be easier to find and likely cheaper than the Land Cruiser. They’re rated to tow up to 8,500 too. 

WiscoProud > PartyPooper2012 10/22/2018 at 11:37

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Does it need to be new? You can get a newer 200 series for that. Maybe even CPO. An Lx570 will be easier to find and likely cheaper than the Land Cruiser. They’re rated to tow up to 8,500 too.

PartyPooper2012 > OmerCarrothers333 10/22/2018 at 11:37

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yeah. sounds just like my suburban. Every time I turned around, it needed something really expensive.

It wasn’t even me or wife abusing the car. It’s also damn hard to abuse 5.3L v8.

To be fair, you and I both bought used. I feel like if wife bought new, it might be a known evil. Plus I hear they made a lot of improvements in transmission and engine etc.

Also, not all MDXs are AWD. They have FWD as well and those only tow up to 3500lbs

For Sweden > PartyPooper2012 10/22/2018 at 11:37

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Obvious answer is used XC90

PartyPooper2012 > WiscoProud 10/22/2018 at 11:39

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I am ready to cry and fight my wife tooth and nail to not get new... but she wants what she wants. 

PartyPooper2012 > For Sweden 10/22/2018 at 11:41

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it really isn’t that obvious tho. I would pass on it... and my wife would too. Rhyme? Reason? Nope. Just don’t trust them. 

WiscoProud > PartyPooper2012 10/22/2018 at 11:42

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I understand. Looks like you can get a new GX460 for around $50k, per autotrader. 6,500 lb towing capacity too.   

OmerCarrothers333 > PartyPooper2012 10/22/2018 at 11:42

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No shit? I thought they all came with SH-AWD.

My wife said she didn’t want to do a cheap used car again, because it would probably be the same shit, different day with something else. So we’re going to do what we can to get our finances in better shape and hopefully in the next year or so we can get a different vehicle for her.

For Sweden > PartyPooper2012 10/22/2018 at 11:44

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You may just have to admit you don’t want any cars and buy a bicycle.

PartyPooper2012 > OmerCarrothers333 10/22/2018 at 11:45

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well, to be fair - i don’t know if they used to only have only awd and now they added fwd too, but now it’s a thing.

My wife sees me working on the cars and just bitches that all we ever do is fix cars. Mostly it’s just preventative or regular maintenance but she doesn’t see it that way.

PartyPooper2012 > For Sweden 10/22/2018 at 11:51

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You may not be wrong there... however, this car is for the wife... and she’s picky. I have no idea how I passed her test

Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo > PartyPooper2012 10/22/2018 at 11:58

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Well, probably because it’s bulbous and massive. I was gonna suggest a crew cab Tundra with the 5.7, but that may not be your wife’s thing. Then I thought, hey, the Sequoia is just the SUV version...

HammerheadFistpunch > PartyPooper2012 10/22/2018 at 12:02

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7 seats?  We were looking at those options and ended up with the GX.  Its not good on gas though.

HammerheadFistpunch > For Sweden 10/22/2018 at 12:02

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good lucking finding a decent one at a decent price.  We look for months.

For Sweden > HammerheadFistpunch 10/22/2018 at 12:03

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We have people for that

HammerheadFistpunch > PartyPooper2012 10/22/2018 at 12:06

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how close to the 5000 lbs limit do you plan to tow? if more than 3500 lbs and more than once a year, and especially if it’ s on the highway.. . Do yourself a favor and get something that tow s 6000+

Its my 2 cents that Honda transmission don’t really like towing loads, have you looked at gm?  Enclave or acadia.  

PartyPooper2012 > HammerheadFistpunch 10/22/2018 at 12:07

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7 seats not required. I have older GX. Great car. Newer ones come with that mouse pad for navigating infotainment... bleh

HammerheadFistpunch > For Sweden 10/22/2018 at 12:09

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Even tom would have trouble finding a clean 90 in our budget.  The main problem is that I don’t want a 100+ mile plus 90 because I’ve test driven enough of them to know they aren’t holding up well at that mileage.  I guess its a budget thing mostly, but even at 20-25k we weren’t liking the offerings.  

PartyPooper2012 > Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo 10/22/2018 at 12:09

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I would love me one... for wife... it might be too big. she thinks mdx is too big

PartyPooper2012 > HammerheadFistpunch 10/22/2018 at 12:11

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how close? I don’t know. Depends. It needs to tow a utility trailer and whatever crap we throw in there. I’ve come to a conclusion that having a trailer is a lot better than owning a pickup. Trailer attaches to anything that can tow. You don’t tear inside of a car. And you can take your SUV to a night out on a town or take your guests with you down to a local restaurants without being all utilitarian. 

Not towing much or often, but need ability to when need to. That’s why we aren’t getting sedans.

I am not looking at domestic vehicles. Not even an option.

Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo > PartyPooper2012 10/22/2018 at 12:13

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My dad had a 2001 MDX and now owns a 2012 MDX. I would say that I’m hesitant think of towing a full 5,000 lbs in that thing. Definitely consult some forums out there to see how that went, it might be just fine.

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > PartyPooper2012 10/22/2018 at 12:13

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You had a Suburban. Meaning an “old” one which was likely bought used?

Seems like an extremely poor reason to rule out the best choice for your needs.....

HammerheadFistpunch > PartyPooper2012 10/22/2018 at 12:13

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if you are only doing occasional towing than you should be fine, though I stand by what I say about Honda transmissions.  I guess the 9 speed is a ZF unit and might be better though.

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > PartyPooper2012 10/22/2018 at 12:15

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Used Suburban =/= Newer Tahoe......

You do you man, just seems silly to rule out the far superior vehicle for the job based off an old vehicle you used to own that likely isn’t even the same platform....

PartyPooper2012 > Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo 10/22/2018 at 12:15

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Let me put it this way - there are suvs out there that tow around 1500 lbs, there are suvs that tow around 5000lbs and there are that tow around 9000 lbs. We are going with the middle ground here. Am I going to tow exactly 5000? I doubt it. Am I going to tow maybe 6000? Maybe. slowly. not far.

I don’t know what a couch on a trailer weighs. I don’t care much. I know its not 5000 lbs on a dot and thats good enough for me

PartyPooper2012 > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 10/22/2018 at 12:18

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Don’t get offended. I hated the amount of money I threw at suburban to keep it running. I still miss the ability to load it up with stuff, shut the barn doors and go on my way. I miss that fucking money pit. I just can’t bring myself to taking a risk on it again.

Yes. New Tahoe or suburban will probably be a champ. But if it’s not, everyone will give me the side look and say - you learned nothing, did you? 

PartyPooper2012 > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 10/22/2018 at 12:20

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I am not saying you are not correct here. Tahoe might do us just fine, but that option is not being entertained. Kill me if you must. 

Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo > PartyPooper2012 10/22/2018 at 12:21

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The only reason I veer back to the Toyota options everyone mentioned was overall ownership cost. Maintenance on and MDX is surprisingly not cheap (cheap being relative, but in short it’s definitely no Honda Accord). The variance in reliability between GM generations is way above my pay-grade, so I have no opinion. An Armada strikes as something you’d buy because you want something worse than Acura or Toyota.

I’ll root for Team 4Runner!

PartyPooper2012 > Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo 10/22/2018 at 12:25

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ill also root for 4runner.

I have no trust left in GM or ford. That third one is just not an option. ever.

I kind of agree with you on the MDX there. Maintenance on Honda suvs is not cheap at all. 

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > PartyPooper2012 10/22/2018 at 12:26

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I get it, I really do.

I have an irrational hate for anything Toyota after buying a 2012 Corolla S brand new, then proceeded to get 2 engines/3 transmissions replaced under warranty. That single car took Toyota completely off the table for me.

Had it been used, I likely could have overlooked it’s initial issues, but being brand new, hell no.

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > PartyPooper2012 10/22/2018 at 12:27

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I gotta ask:  

W hat year?

How many miles were on it?

PartyPooper2012 > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 10/22/2018 at 12:31

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suburban was 2003. Bought it with 100k miles on it. Bought it in 2011 i think

You would think it was just starting its life. Nope. 

PartyPooper2012 > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 10/22/2018 at 12:34

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Yep. I am with you there. My sister bought a used corolla with very low miles. Damn thing burned oil faster than Iraq during Bush invasion. I called toyota to find out what the hell was happening. They said - oh. That’s normal. It burns through a barge of oil between oil changes. If it burns through more than that, the engine was ran without oil and likely burned up the piston rings so you’re going to need a new engine.

Oddly, my GX470 has the same disclaimer in car manual, but it’s acting a bit differently. I will have to look into that if we seriously consider MDX but I am not getting anything that burns that much oil NORMALLY.   

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > PartyPooper2012 10/22/2018 at 12:37

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8 yrs old with 100k?

Dude there’s your issue. 100k is roughly the mark things start going to hell on ANY   vehicle. That’s why so many 80-100k mile vehicles are for sale, people sell them before they start having issues.

I honestly don’t understand writing off an entire brand because you had an 8 yr old 100k version 7 yrs ago that had issues?

Not trying to offend here, this just makes zero sense to me. Used cars are always a gamble, regardless of make.

PartyPooper2012 > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 10/22/2018 at 12:37

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by the way, I checked into tahoe - 4wd starts at 52k+. That’s a loaded MDX with door handles and steering wheel and all mirrors. 

PartyPooper2012 > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 10/22/2018 at 12:40

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All the stories I’ve ever heard of suburbans and tahoes start with my 400k mile suburban/tahoe is having a problem with low windshield wiper fluid. I was just disappointed mine didn’t pan out that way. I get it. I know I had a less than ideal condition vehicle and it was used and old. I get it... but that particular vehicle was claimed to be a tank and it was a home made submarine boat.

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > PartyPooper2012 10/22/2018 at 12:40

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That seems to be a common thing among modern cars in general, many manufacturers claim 3-4qts between changes is “normal”.

I keep thinking: H oly shit! If my vehicle uses more than 1/2 qt between changes I’m looking for the leak, because something is seriously wrong.

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > PartyPooper2012 10/22/2018 at 12:42

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Had the same issue with Toyota. Bought a brand new one because Toyota=Reliable. That pos spent more time in the shop than both my 20+yo Mopars combined.......

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > PartyPooper2012 10/22/2018 at 12:42

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Tahoe is also far more vehicle for the money........

PartyPooper2012 > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 10/22/2018 at 12:43

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Yep. That alone should be cause for alarm. Where is all this burnt oil going? Polluting air?

What about extra cost associated with a vehicle that operates that way? Oil isn’t exactly cheap. Repair bills of running engine oil- less are massive.  

No. No thanks.

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > PartyPooper2012 10/22/2018 at 12:44

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Just saying, don’t rule it out based off a used one, likely of questionable maintenance you owned years ago.

You buy it new and take good care of it, it will likely take you to 400k with little issue.

PartyPooper2012 > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 10/22/2018 at 12:45

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Call me prejudice or carrist or whatever the term is for disliking a car brand without a recent reason. 

PartyPooper2012 > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 10/22/2018 at 12:46

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you’re not wrong. not even a little bit. But its happening. GM is getting written off my list. 

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > PartyPooper2012 10/22/2018 at 12:52

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You do you, I wish you the best of luck on your search.

A 4Runner or FJ Cruiser get you very close to you desired towing capacity.

Although as others have mentioned, towing close to or at capacity will be a very eye opening experience.

StndIbnz, Drives a MSRT8 > PartyPooper2012 10/22/2018 at 13:51

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Any reason you’re not looking at Grand Cherokee’s?  Aside from bias against US automakers?

PartyPooper2012 > StndIbnz, Drives a MSRT8 10/22/2018 at 13:59

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zero trust in their reliability. 

Censored > PartyPooper2012 10/22/2018 at 13:59

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Armada and BMW are the only two to go over 5k.

The google may be wrong, but it shows 3500 for both configs of the MDX. And to get that rating, you have to have the tow package option which is likely just the receiver . However it may include things like a tranny cooler, brakes and controller.

PartyPooper2012 > Censored 10/22/2018 at 14:01

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AWD can tow 5k and the tow package includes wiring harness and tranny coooler.

FWD will tow 3500 tho

!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!

When it comes to perfectly handling the Freehold roads, the 2019 MDX makes it easy.

MDX Towing Capacity : On the front wheel drive build of the MDX, you’ll enjoy a capable towing capacity of 3,500 pounds, but with the upgradeable SH-AWD system, you’ll be able to tow up to 5,000 pounds.

Censored > PartyPooper2012 10/22/2018 at 14:18

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Holy crap, something was wrong on the internet. This has never happened before.

PartyPooper2012 > Censored 10/22/2018 at 14:30

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Umm. probably not wrong... just showing default options first

StndIbnz, Drives a MSRT8 > PartyPooper2012 10/23/2018 at 09:35

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They’re really nice vehicles. FCA’s come a long way, I love the Grand’s.

Textured Soy Protein > PartyPooper2012 10/23/2018 at 09:48

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Is a utility trailer with a load of mulch really 5k lbs?

PartyPooper2012 > Textured Soy Protein 10/23/2018 at 09:56

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I have no idea.... Probably not... But that’s not the point. I can’t have an SUV with 1500 lbs capability when my trailer weighs around that alone.

I don’t weigh things. I eyeball it. 

Wild > PartyPooper2012 10/23/2018 at 14:31

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KKia Borrego with the v8. Size vs capacity is right and they actually have held up very well. The fact they were kinda expensive when new ruled out the bang for your buck crowd. Underrated and easy ish to fix

PartyPooper2012 > Wild 10/23/2018 at 14:36

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umm... kia makes a v8? See. This is why I come here to ask questions.

...investigating...

PartyPooper2012 > Wild 10/23/2018 at 14:39

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umm.. USA doesn’t have Borrego!?

Wild > PartyPooper2012 10/23/2018 at 15:30

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Bo rrengo is a few years old now. Read the towing forums. And ya can get a nice one with 70k and awd for like 10k ish.

No one searches for a borrengo. V6 could do 5k tows but it'd be at max capacity and probably a bit sketchy.

PartyPooper2012 > Wild 10/23/2018 at 15:40

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I think wife wants a new one tho. I would love nothing more than to buy a used land cruiser or something along the lines and call it a day. She wants new, unmolested, shiny and perfect.